tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post305625676702541356..comments2023-11-03T09:43:13.487+00:00Comments on Chris Hatton's blog: If it looks like a duck... Winterbourne View and institutions reduxChris Hattonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05299821560069281510noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-81989787346795839202017-04-22T06:25:05.775+01:002017-04-22T06:25:05.775+01:00Very useful information article. Thanks for sharin...Very useful information article. Thanks for sharing.<br /><a href="http://www.actonyinc.com/" rel="nofollow">Accountant Boynton Beach</a>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04471639723922441707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-26347064520329003442016-04-14T07:57:18.815+01:002016-04-14T07:57:18.815+01:00Great post. Finding ideas to write about is one of...Great post. Finding ideas to write about is one of the hardest things about running a blog. Please visit <a href="http://goo.gl/ThkTnz" rel="nofollow">http://goo.gl/ThkTnz</a><br />William Stinnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06952105268106080120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-53278314148966667672014-03-26T09:55:06.793+00:002014-03-26T09:55:06.793+00:00Your blog is very nice and share an informative co...Your blog is very nice and share an informative content about <a href="http://www.akooramak.org.au/index.php/services/residential-care-main/residential-care" rel="nofollow">residential care stanthorpe</a>.I would like to thanks to share such info with us.<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12798304280910662041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-33310624366053060342014-02-09T07:10:13.138+00:002014-02-09T07:10:13.138+00:00Wow! nice your page.
That's excellent............Wow! nice your page.<br />That's excellent...........<br />For more information visit our website here...<a href="http://abeytagroupservices.com/" rel="nofollow">Residential Remodeling services</a><br />Nialsoonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05996879861028889161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-40743479956910543112013-12-19T00:21:40.049+00:002013-12-19T00:21:40.049+00:00such a sad read, it is so evident that there are m...such a sad read, it is so evident that there are many people who have a strong belief in 'we can do better' so whats stopping us.<br />I am saddened not only by these 'life-long assessment/treatment units' but also by the apparent lack of understanding what independent living should be about. Why are we still placing young people in residential care, to enjoy receipt of an 'allowance'??? Try as I do, I feel like a lonely voice trying to shout why supported living has to be a better choice - but its not what parents seem to want. Why not?<br />I also struggle so much with 'day services', why is it ok to place someone in a day centre for 5 days a week? Families are still demanding this. I still hear 'PMLD can't work'. Why not, am I missing something here???<br />I think Winterbourne is just one aspect of what is going so very wrong, but we still aren't achieving better life's even for those still living at home.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02769464386320488247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-90186591513391003762013-12-17T21:51:30.850+00:002013-12-17T21:51:30.850+00:00Yes, absolutely agree Mark. It can and, in many pl...Yes, absolutely agree Mark. It can and, in many places, pretty much was done for a period of time. Chris Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05299821560069281510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-48040345059642947332013-12-17T21:50:01.470+00:002013-12-17T21:50:01.470+00:00Thanks for this reply Rosemary. Absolutely, both t...Thanks for this reply Rosemary. Absolutely, both the prohibitive cost of refurbishing the original institutions and the money that people thought could be raised from their sale seemed to be important. <br /><br />Does the very fragmentation of commissioners (so no one commissioner sees the aggregate national cost of these places) hinder making and using this very cogernt cost argument now?Chris Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05299821560069281510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-13243205338435695962013-12-17T18:20:16.925+00:002013-12-17T18:20:16.925+00:00A good summary and analysis of the issues Chris. ...A good summary and analysis of the issues Chris. We did almost get there in the North West, with some excellent community-based responses to people as people, combining inclusion, kindness and technical know how, and at no more cost (as if that is what really matters!) than the expensive private institutions that promote their dubious wares so assiduously. . Much of that is in jeopardy now as the cuts bite and services (including the one I led until March 2012) fragmenting and even being dismantled. But we have to keep plugging away, as you are here, and as Rob Grieg has in his recent post on NDTi, making it clear what works and what is right, building and maintaining alliances to achieve a credible government commitment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-56986080013985506282013-12-17T17:58:55.595+00:002013-12-17T17:58:55.595+00:00It is difficult but not impossible if there's ...It is difficult but not impossible if there's the will. I always felt the previous hospital closures happened to a great extent as the government at the time saw savings from the massive costs of hospitals if only from the sale of the large London-circling hospitals. Maybe they need reminding and being made loudly accountable for wasting public money. Large amounts of money are being spent on the 3250 people stuck in these units - it seems sometimes health don't even know what they're spending. Margaret Flynn told me that one woman at Winterbourne was costing £10k per week!! Some areas are doing better. As you say we do know what works. A proper decommissioning plan should be able to show with some one-off frontloading how and when it would save... we do have costed examples of people living in the community - including people whose costs have come right down with the right support, but importantly we also know who the next people are likely to be without the right back-up - including children who challenge and we need to make both LAs, Government and Health aware of the costs for ever increasing unless they ensure community services are supported. It'd be good to have yours and others' support in getting this message across centrallyAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07363589718023069674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-48083218640364398072013-12-16T20:41:08.421+00:002013-12-16T20:41:08.421+00:00Thank you so much for this Rosemary. It shows real...Thank you so much for this Rosemary. It shows really what needed to be in place for hospital closure to happen, and how difficult the current environment is for making this happen. Chris Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05299821560069281510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-61751804274324014392013-12-16T19:54:22.004+00:002013-12-16T19:54:22.004+00:00Such a good reminder of what has been happening be...Such a good reminder of what has been happening behind some of our (complacent) backs. As someone who resettled people from long-stay hospital into ordinary housing in the N/West amidst a proper strategic decommissioning policy that worked against a strong framework of normalisation, I too was shocked to find behind my back new institutions had been rising apparently unchallenged. Worse too as I know that most people can be supported within the community in ordinary housing if we have well-trained staff who care and listen. We've seen how (often understandable) challenges to us have changed as people learn that support is FOR them and will stay with them and cares... and so they learn to trust. No wonder it's hard for them to do this when we see not only what institutions do to exercise power inappropriately but also recall how they also set the conditions for abuse.But in the 80s and 90s we had a clear values base; we had support from the top; we had specialist LA social workers and specialist community teams of multi-professionals supporting the development of skills. We've now got commissioners who not only do not have the skills and experience to know what it takes to support people with more complex needs but don't use the free consultancy of providers who do, for fear of being thought to "favour" them in some way. In addition they have unbelievable financial pressures from the government cuts which will amount to some 50% by 2018, and regimes which seem to think they have to tender for lowest prices even though there can be exceptions in care to European rules, AND we're supposed to be assessing and meeting needs individually. They also can't distinguish in the rush to the bottom between the impossible promises made by applicants in their bid for the business.... even though we saw one of the problems of the sector has been being owned and driven by hedge funds that don't have any interest in the clients or even in the UK but in profit and can easily move out and take their winnings leaving bust businesses if they don't produce. At the same time the funding regimes mean there's an unintended incentive for LAs not to pay out at high cost in the community when Health has to pay for assessment and treatment unit costs. I'm not suggesting it's deliberate but it needs sorting - health need to understand it is NOT buildings or even high cost psychiatrists who make the difference but properly assessed and supported services designed around the person. Like the rest of us, people with learning disabilities can need good skilled community services and local mental health service support for any acute episode. In my area, the psychiatric back-up has never materialised but the specialist community health services have gradually been eroded - so where has this money gone? There are some areas who still have some developed support for challenge. There are also providers who work well and have developed skills and training and have helped people who challenge to live successfully in the community. There should be a call for the decommissioning of these assessment and treatment units and learning from areas who have retained or developed good local community services that support people locally. We so badly let down people with learning disabilities to allow such services to rob them of important parts of their lives and frankly to be paying large sums of money which could be so much better employed in the community.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07363589718023069674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-61292516691282078742013-12-16T12:44:28.317+00:002013-12-16T12:44:28.317+00:00Really nice weaving together of pieces of evidence...Really nice weaving together of pieces of evidence and a balanced overview Chris. Quacking stuff!ProfHastingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17961738273216388538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-37363429049274211182013-12-16T12:41:38.966+00:002013-12-16T12:41:38.966+00:00Wow and double wow, that's a blog post and a h...Wow and double wow, that's a blog post and a half Chris. In fact it's probably a hybrid of a blog post epic, a provocation paper and a call to arms/manifesto. It is dire that things remain as they are and unfortunately I think you've touched on something with the complacency, not just of those working in the field, but also of us fellow citizens who may look on in horror and shock but quickly move on to other endeavours. <br /><br />I wrote this 2.5 yrs ago immediately after Winterbourne View http://wp.me/pOLqj-is and honestly, I don't know that anything has really changed. Need to muse more before adding another comment, or blogging in reply, but it is beyond my comprehension that we are in the position we are in. That said I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts, the more we think the more we'll be able to improve things (I hope). George Julianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06600528178183305197noreply@blogger.com