tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post5841146136119597917..comments2023-11-03T09:43:13.487+00:00Comments on Chris Hatton's blog: Housing benefit?Chris Hattonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05299821560069281510noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-23399954800243190042016-12-01T16:43:13.436+00:002016-12-01T16:43:13.436+00:00Thanks again Donna. I suspect you're right abo...Thanks again Donna. I suspect you're right about this depressing drift back towards residential careChris Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05299821560069281510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-19993959019160100192016-11-30T21:12:39.049+00:002016-11-30T21:12:39.049+00:00I'm not sure about that, Chris. In the residen...I'm not sure about that, Chris. In the residential care model ASC are paying for everything in the fee, much less is funded by DWP, housing benefit etc. They also have to put in place and monitor the contract with the provider and still have a legal responsibility to review each resident. For a small number of people, residential care is a) the preferred choice of them or their families, some people really want this option to be available b) offers a one stop shop for those who lack capacity, have complex needs and for whom supported living will offer no more real control over their lives. For this (again I emphasise very small) group of people supported living can, in some cases, feel like a 'mock up' of a 'normal' life, but with increased vulnerability and extra layers of complexity when, in reality, others are making all decisions in your best interests.<br /><br />However....there's a danger that residential care may be seen as the default option. It's easier in many ways to arrange a residential care placement. No application to CoP for DOL (for 24/7 care) or tenancy if no capacity. No complicated mapping of support hours across all tenants (which has to be revisited for everyone every time a tenant changes support hours or moves), no issues around money management (bill paying, risk of financial abuse, splitting costs between several tenants) etc etcAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10653153266580818133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-24550783756794031422016-11-30T09:29:36.654+00:002016-11-30T09:29:36.654+00:00Hi Jane. Liz has made a similar, excellent point a...Hi Jane. Liz has made a similar, excellent point about families in her comment too. Social care relies on huge numbers of families doing with with little/no support. Much bigger numbers of adults withl learning disabilities live in supported living and residential care (again, approaching 50,000 people) than in patient services (3,000ish people?) but inpatient services mainly exist because people and families aren't supported properly in the first place?Chris Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05299821560069281510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-88981048185768566542016-11-30T09:22:51.836+00:002016-11-30T09:22:51.836+00:00Thanks Donna - this is brilliant and just the sort...Thanks Donna - this is brilliant and just the sort of information I strongly suspected I was ignorant of (have been having similar conversations with Naomi Harflett on email so thanks to Naomi too). <br />Wonder if your comments suggest that part of a social care motivation for returning to residential care is to shunt responsibilities from them (for adaptations, professional input etc) on to providers, so they can not bother with/cut them? The number of adults with learning disabilities getting support from a professional plummeted from 2010/11 to 2013/14 (when it was last counted) - a way for councils to say they're fulfilling these responsibilities (via providers) while not having them themselves?Chris Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05299821560069281510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-92140391071910258432016-11-30T09:15:59.229+00:002016-11-30T09:15:59.229+00:00Hi Liz. Yes, you're right - at least 50,000 ad...Hi Liz. Yes, you're right - at least 50,000 adults with learning disabilities in England that social services know about are living with their families. This is (a) an underestimate and (b) likely to be a number that's getting bigger. Social and health services absolutely rely on families to do this (while not supported them or the person very well!). Maybe they a crisis-driven 'system' is a price worth paying?Chris Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05299821560069281510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-60647236941466337642016-11-29T20:49:38.837+00:002016-11-29T20:49:38.837+00:00I'm interested in this issue but sadly rather ...I'm interested in this issue but sadly rather ignorant. However, I can't see any good economic or social reason for cutting the funding for supported housing, as it is both more appropriate and cheaper than the dreadful ATUs. And it's all very well for the State to rely on parents to do the caring, but (1) such parents make a huge commitment, long after they would otherwise be free of such responsibility once their (non-disabled) children leave home; (2) how is the adult with learning disabilities going to be looked after once their parents have become too old to care or indeed have passed away? Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04924279884167633221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-45808142818648228802016-11-29T20:47:15.225+00:002016-11-29T20:47:15.225+00:00A few thoughts,as you've cited me (see,I reall...A few thoughts,as you've cited me (see,I really do read your blogs). In no particular order:<br /><br />1) there are other costs to the public purse when people with a learning disability live in supported housing. Whereas residential fees cover everything apart from personal spending (for which people tend to keep around £30-£50 per week of their income from benefits), people in supported housing receive a higher level of income from benefits which is used to fund things such as food, activities and transport. This comes from the DWP rather than adult social care, still the public purse.<br />2) as alluded to above, people in residential care usually pay a higher client contribution to their care costs, often more than £100 per week. People in supported housing are often assessed as incurring more costs and pay less, or sometimes a nil contribution<br />3) a residential care provider is responsible for funding adaptations and equipment to meet residents needs. In supported housing this is often the responsibility of either the individual or the local authority. An occupational therapist, for example, is more likely to assess and arrange provision of equipment or more substantial adaptations, such as installation of wet rooms. Again, from the public purse but a different part of the purse.<br />4) supported housing does not promote independence if, as part and parcel of the tenancy, a minimum number of support hours must be purchased (from a specific provider). <br />5) I've seen some great example of RSLs (registered social landlords) who provide good support. I've seen others who purchase housing, immediately instigate a rent review, up the rent and then offer the absolute minimum in terms of updating, maintenance, adaptations and equipment. The only way to ensure value for money is to monitor closely what is being provided. Joint social care/health and housing reviews?<br />5) supported housing may appear cheap but the rent amounts quoted are usually on the basis of several people sharing. If you take the average amount of rent and service charge, multiply it by, say, 5, then the cost of the housing (and just the housing) suddenly seems much less cheap. £3,531 per month rent? A landlord could do worse.<br /><br />None of the above leads me to conclude that residential care is better, by the way. It meets the needs of a small percentage of people, but not most.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10653153266580818133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1016904785776950121.post-25976265651028272302016-11-28T19:28:34.321+00:002016-11-28T19:28:34.321+00:00As a parent/carer for someone who still lives in t...As a parent/carer for someone who still lives in the family home, I am completely bewildered by all this - but feel that nothing but good can come from a LOT more transparency about costs.<br /><br />My first thought is that £320 for support isnt going to buy a whole lot of support - surely that is the main reason for pushing people into residential care? I realise it is an average, but still find it low. (The recent CoP case where a private provider quoted close on half a million a yearfor care at home I found quite terrifying.)<br /><br />The second thing is that I thought I saw a statistic that showed that a large number of people with LD were still living at home with their parents - the cheapest option of all, presumably, as the parents will be providing most of the support as well. And threatening residential care as the only other option is a pretty good way of ensuring that parents CONTINUE to do that, without daring to rock the boat.<br /><br />My daughter has zero desire to live independently, and wouldn't, we feel, last a week in an ATU, so we will continue to be a very cheap option, and we can;t bee the only ones. Even in London, it is care/support which is the high cot, not housing.Lizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02037614816418802880noreply@blogger.com